I can totally see ten of thousands of dollars being spent on this board and a corresponding PC of worthwhile power so the owner can play master of orion 2, nes emulators and minecraft. I know, I'm one of those nobs.
"ten of thousands of dollars"? Sounds a bit excessive given that 1 (or 2, where possible) of the most expensive components available still doesn't really get you to $10K. Unless you're buying by sorting for the most expensive anything and taking as many as you can fit in a case. Next thing you're going to brag you pay a guy to comment for you.
Google says there were dual Pentium, Pentium Pro, Pentium II, Pentium III, and so forth motherboards around so Intel has sold non-Xeon products for dual socket/slot motherboards.
With the exception of the P3 all of those predated the Xeon branding. Dual socket P3 was presumably transitional in their rebranding.
For modern chips, on the Intel side mainstream parts have neither the on die hardware, nor chip socket support for multi-socket setups because doing so would inflate the costs of the 99.9% of systems that are single socket.
I'm less sure of the situation with AMD. I suspect that due to the level of die sharing they're doing between TR and Epyc that TR cpu dies themselves have the hardware needed to talk to a second CPU socket. However I'm skeptical that they've also paid extra for a larger/more complex socket on mainstream TR parts. It'd raise costs for the 99.9% of uni-socket systems and cut into sales of their more profitable Epyc line.
More generally multi-core CPUs have been heavily eroding the market for multi-socket chips over the last 15 years. They require more complex boards, more complex CPUs, in many cases (ie any that need threads on different sockets to talk to each other) they also require additional programming work to perform at their maximum capacity (AMD has a NUMA hit for new multi die but single socket chips, however its worse for their dual socket ones). All of that means that almost any time you can get a single socket system with a suitable performance level it will be more cost effective than a similar dual (never mind quad or 8way) socket system. With dozens of cores available on Intel and AMD's current high end platforms small core count dual socket systems rarely make sense outside of cases where you need huge amounts of ram and don't really care about CPU performance.
Multi-CPU systems have always been the market for severs and high end workstations. I purchase my Dual Xeon 5160 Supermicro for Lightwave 3d creations. These type system have application that used multiple threads and especially on servers.
When I research for Dual Xeon systems, the advantage of multi-cpu Xeon ( not sure if applies to AMD ) was increase IO abilities. Plus at time 5160 was only dual-core - so it gave me 4 cores.
Today's system with so much interest in increase core count especial on non-server enviroments is kind of strange - i guess instead of throwing faster performance - they throw cores in to it. But the AMD vs Intel core wars reminds me of old frequencies wars - it just silly to just to say you have more cores in non server enviroment where most of user interface and logic is single threaded. Yes in time multiple threads will come about - but it more difficult for software developers to do that user interface.
Of course we can say never on this - because with multitasking, the more threads / cores the better it is. Especially in development enviroments with VM and compilers that can used multiple threads
"Inflate the cost", "complex socket" and "more expensive motherboards" sounds like words from Intel press releases. The tech is known for decades, costs nothing to implement, is working on xeons and everyone else including all graphics processors no matter what price.
Times changed. Adding more cores already reaching it's thermal design limit, 200-300W and the game is over, so the performance scaling with core counts on the die becomes deeply sublinear for the most tasks, for example linear algebra. The only way which is practically left is increase of sockets on the board.
I used to have a Pentium Pro motherboard - but with single CPU - it was a whopping $3500 back then.
Now there is a big difference between Xeon and non-Zeon system besides the running CPU - Xeon have much greater IO performance than non Xeon CPU. I also have a dual 5160 3Ghz Zeon system and until some of later i7's - kept up with performance. It over ten years old and stills runs today - but I rarely run it now - just too much trouble ever since I got into laptops
I have always upgraded both the CPU and Motherboard
The only exception if I could find newer Xeon cores for my Supermicro - especially if cost has gone down - but I do except trouble. When I building machines, it did not matter much - my older workstation system became a render node.
All mobos differing by the factor of mere 10% higher then others by some miniscule feature are inflated in price by the factor of 10. How much it costs to manufacturers to build these mobos in China? 20-25 bucks. If you doubt that wait for the next financial crisis to see their real price.
Blame USB3, and not wanting to fill up space with mere 2.0 ports on a high end board.
USB3, Sata, and chipset PCIe are all sharing the same limited set of 26 high speed IO ports on the chipset. The Nominal counts are: The back panel uses 8 lanes (6xUSB3.x, ethernet, wifi). 8 more are being used for sata. 8 for the pair of M.2 slots. PCIe slots take up 4+1+1 = 6. Front panel USBC is 3 (2 for the 2x 5gb USBA header, 1 for the 1x10gb USBC header. That's a nominal 33 lanes being used; lane sharing and onboard USB-C hubs make up the difference; but USBC hubs only add additional potential bottlenecking so adding more of them doesn't really do anything except bump up specsheet numbers. Ultimately what we need is to either move M.2 PCIe lanes from the chipset to the CPU (getting reasonable IO out of the southbridge was at lot easier before they started eating 8 or 12 of the available lanes); or a larger next generation southbridge. Ideally the latter would be combined with an 8 lane wide DMI on higher end platforms to reduce the bottlenecking that running everything through the equivalent of a PCIe x4 connection creates.
Thank you. Normally we denote this, however it was missed upon publication. At the time the table was created, I do not believe newegg.com sold it themselves. Either way, the proper price is up!
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27 Comments
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MrPoletski - Monday, December 11, 2017 - link
I can totally see ten of thousands of dollars being spent on this board and a corresponding PC of worthwhile power so the owner can play master of orion 2, nes emulators and minecraft. I know, I'm one of those nobs.peevee - Monday, December 11, 2017 - link
Somebody has to seriously grow up instead of wasting $400 for a gaming MB (or a few thou for a gaming computer).ddrіver - Monday, December 11, 2017 - link
"ten of thousands of dollars"? Sounds a bit excessive given that 1 (or 2, where possible) of the most expensive components available still doesn't really get you to $10K. Unless you're buying by sorting for the most expensive anything and taking as many as you can fit in a case.Next thing you're going to brag you pay a guy to comment for you.
DanNeely - Monday, December 11, 2017 - link
" The smaller slots are an x1 and two x4 slots (the first runs at 1x) powered by the chipset for add-in cards. "This seems backwards since the first x4 is always free to put a card in while the second is blocked by the 2nd GPU.
Joe Shields - Monday, December 11, 2017 - link
Hey Dan, I don't blame you for thinking this way. However, from the specifications it says this...:1. PCIEX4_1 max. at x1 mode
Which is the same for all 44/28/16 lane CPUs.
DanNeely - Monday, December 11, 2017 - link
ok. Just wanted to confirm it was a screwy design on Asus's part, not a transcription error.SanX - Monday, December 11, 2017 - link
Where the hell are dual CPU mobos? Intel and AMD don't like to sell more chips?Dr. Swag - Monday, December 11, 2017 - link
Intel has never sold non Xeon products that can be put in dual CPU mobos.PeachNCream - Monday, December 11, 2017 - link
Google says there were dual Pentium, Pentium Pro, Pentium II, Pentium III, and so forth motherboards around so Intel has sold non-Xeon products for dual socket/slot motherboards.DanNeely - Monday, December 11, 2017 - link
With the exception of the P3 all of those predated the Xeon branding. Dual socket P3 was presumably transitional in their rebranding.For modern chips, on the Intel side mainstream parts have neither the on die hardware, nor chip socket support for multi-socket setups because doing so would inflate the costs of the 99.9% of systems that are single socket.
I'm less sure of the situation with AMD. I suspect that due to the level of die sharing they're doing between TR and Epyc that TR cpu dies themselves have the hardware needed to talk to a second CPU socket. However I'm skeptical that they've also paid extra for a larger/more complex socket on mainstream TR parts. It'd raise costs for the 99.9% of uni-socket systems and cut into sales of their more profitable Epyc line.
More generally multi-core CPUs have been heavily eroding the market for multi-socket chips over the last 15 years. They require more complex boards, more complex CPUs, in many cases (ie any that need threads on different sockets to talk to each other) they also require additional programming work to perform at their maximum capacity (AMD has a NUMA hit for new multi die but single socket chips, however its worse for their dual socket ones). All of that means that almost any time you can get a single socket system with a suitable performance level it will be more cost effective than a similar dual (never mind quad or 8way) socket system. With dozens of cores available on Intel and AMD's current high end platforms small core count dual socket systems rarely make sense outside of cases where you need huge amounts of ram and don't really care about CPU performance.
PeachNCream - Monday, December 11, 2017 - link
Yup, but saying "never" speaks in absolute terms and that's not accurate.HStewart - Monday, December 11, 2017 - link
Multi-CPU systems have always been the market for severs and high end workstations. I purchase my Dual Xeon 5160 Supermicro for Lightwave 3d creations. These type system have application that used multiple threads and especially on servers.When I research for Dual Xeon systems, the advantage of multi-cpu Xeon ( not sure if applies to AMD ) was increase IO abilities. Plus at time 5160 was only dual-core - so it gave me 4 cores.
Today's system with so much interest in increase core count especial on non-server enviroments is kind of strange - i guess instead of throwing faster performance - they throw cores in to it. But the AMD vs Intel core wars reminds me of old frequencies wars - it just silly to just to say you have more cores in non server enviroment where most of user interface and logic is single threaded. Yes in time multiple threads will come about - but it more difficult for software developers to do that user interface.
Of course we can say never on this - because with multitasking, the more threads / cores the better it is. Especially in development enviroments with VM and compilers that can used multiple threads
SanX - Wednesday, December 13, 2017 - link
"Inflate the cost", "complex socket" and "more expensive motherboards" sounds like words from Intel press releases. The tech is known for decades, costs nothing to implement, is working on xeons and everyone else including all graphics processors no matter what price.Times changed. Adding more cores already reaching it's thermal design limit, 200-300W and the game is over, so the performance scaling with core counts on the die becomes deeply sublinear for the most tasks, for example linear algebra. The only way which is practically left is increase of sockets on the board.
HStewart - Monday, December 11, 2017 - link
I used to have a Pentium Pro motherboard - but with single CPU - it was a whopping $3500 back then.Now there is a big difference between Xeon and non-Zeon system besides the running CPU - Xeon have much greater IO performance than non Xeon CPU. I also have a dual 5160 3Ghz Zeon system and until some of later i7's - kept up with performance. It over ten years old and stills runs today - but I rarely run it now - just too much trouble ever since I got into laptops
HStewart - Monday, December 11, 2017 - link
Just for clarification, the Pentium Pro motherboard supported dual cpus - just I never purchase extra CPU.sonny73n - Monday, December 11, 2017 - link
They just don't like the idea of us upgrading our system with only another same old CPU, instead of upgrading the whole system.HStewart - Monday, December 11, 2017 - link
I have always upgraded both the CPU and MotherboardThe only exception if I could find newer Xeon cores for my Supermicro - especially if cost has gone down - but I do except trouble. When I building machines, it did not matter much - my older workstation system became a render node.
svan1971 - Thursday, December 14, 2017 - link
dude they make 22 core and 32 core cpus aparently less is moreSanX - Monday, December 11, 2017 - link
All mobos differing by the factor of mere 10% higher then others by some miniscule feature are inflated in price by the factor of 10. How much it costs to manufacturers to build these mobos in China? 20-25 bucks. If you doubt that wait for the next financial crisis to see their real price.Ro_Ja - Monday, December 11, 2017 - link
My old ass P35 motherboard has more USB ports compares to this one.I'm not saying that should but it's prolly cause for the PCI-e lanes,?
DanNeely - Monday, December 11, 2017 - link
Blame USB3, and not wanting to fill up space with mere 2.0 ports on a high end board.USB3, Sata, and chipset PCIe are all sharing the same limited set of 26 high speed IO ports on the chipset. The Nominal counts are: The back panel uses 8 lanes (6xUSB3.x, ethernet, wifi). 8 more are being used for sata. 8 for the pair of M.2 slots. PCIe slots take up 4+1+1 = 6. Front panel USBC is 3 (2 for the 2x 5gb USBA header, 1 for the 1x10gb USBC header. That's a nominal 33 lanes being used; lane sharing and onboard USB-C hubs make up the difference; but USBC hubs only add additional potential bottlenecking so adding more of them doesn't really do anything except bump up specsheet numbers.
Ultimately what we need is to either move M.2 PCIe lanes from the chipset to the CPU (getting reasonable IO out of the southbridge was at lot easier before they started eating 8 or 12 of the available lanes); or a larger next generation southbridge. Ideally the latter would be combined with an 8 lane wide DMI on higher end platforms to reduce the bottlenecking that running everything through the equivalent of a PCIe x4 connection creates.
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Morawka - Monday, December 11, 2017 - link
The Rampage VI Extreme MSRP is $649.99, the price you have linked is from a 3rd party seller.Joe Shields - Tuesday, December 12, 2017 - link
Thank you. Normally we denote this, however it was missed upon publication. At the time the table was created, I do not believe newegg.com sold it themselves. Either way, the proper price is up!svan1971 - Thursday, December 14, 2017 - link
whats the chance we get a ROG MAXIMUS X CODE review?davidden119@gmail.com - Monday, January 15, 2018 - link
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