As far as I can tell, the CPUs only support 4 PCI Express 2.0 lanes. You may have issues trying to get NVIDIA cards to work. Im very interested in using a board like these for HTPC uses, however im thinking I may just get a Shield (Android TV) when it comes out.
native support is apparently only 4x 3.0, 1x2.0 ports; asrock is apparently using either controller chips or on board hubs. Probably the latter due to a PCIe lane shortage.
It is a typo on the USB 3.0. ITi only supports 4 USB 3.0, plus there is only one additional header on the top of the board. Per Intels site the chip supports up to 5 USB ports, it doesn't specify how many USB 3.0 or USB 2.0.
"Also, because I feel like sticking in a $70 to $570 discrete graphics cards into one of these and see just how far CPU scaling can go."
Several forum posts suggest folks want to know the limits of gaming on Braswell integrated graphics. What games can or can not be played at acceptable frame rates is of real concern to real consumers. I speculate less than 2% of Baytrail -D and -M motherboards have discrete graphics cards and the percent will drop lower with Braswell. Baytrail -D and -M devastated AMD's low end APU's because so few care about penultimate graphics is a predominately low end media consumption device. What is your motive in chasing the less than 2% use case? Is Braswell low end gaming now competitive with comparably priced AMD offerings? That is a real question that is of interest to a niche in the market. Discrete graphics on a low end integrated graphics motherboard is just sour grapes. It is a misuse of your talents to waste time verifying what is already known. Almost no knowledgeable person will purchase these boards to add discrete graphics because it is a dumb idea.
Is it dumb? We don't know that for sure yet because it hasn't been tested. I'm actually very curious to see what Braswell + dGPU can do for a couple reasons. One is that like Bay Trail, Braswell+mobo will be very, very cheap ($35-50). Two is that with Windows 10/DX12, CPU bottlenecks will be less impactful than under DX11. I think you could possibly build a viable gaming machine for under $200 (sans OS).
I foresee possible difficulty hitting a $200 price point using a $570 discrete graphics card as originally proposed. Let me understand the reasonable question you ask. Today, the cheapest Baytrail motherboard offered on Newegg is a $50 J1800 motherboard. Braswell vs Baytrail shows significant progress in efficiency and graphics, but the CPU appears to be little more than a push. Given competitive conditions I see little reason Intel would make Braswell available cheaper than Baytrail so lets assume a cheap Braswell dual core motherboard is $50 and we add in a $50 graphics card. The question would be does this $100 combination out game a $100 embedded AMD APU board? That real question goes to the heart of a seriously narrow niche. AMD APU's targeted this niche and had whatever strengths or weaknesses they had and AMD basically lost the low end market. Braswell narrows the graphics gap but with discrete graphics you trash that benefit.. AMD should outgame Braswell as much as it outgamed Baytrail. Unfortunately for AMD, there is no broad public demand for the best quality $200 desktop gaming platform. That is why they already lost the low end market. Again, reading forum posts, I think most who prioritize gaming appreciate the incremental improvements from a higher budget are big and they are willing to pay more for a clearly superior experience. I expect millions of hours will be spent gaming affordably on Braswell, but it will not be a high end experience, just fun.
To recap, high end desktop gaming leadership delivers market share. Low end desktop gaming leadership is noise. On an oblique note, low end Android tablet gaming leadership that does not burn your hands may also deliver market share. Maybe the market is not nice, but it is what it is.
At least for me, I'm interested in the result simply to see how these chips perform when not GPU bound. By putting in a top of the line discrete card, we can see just how far the Braswell chips can be pushed.
It's certainly not a likely build for anyone, but I think the results will be interesting nonetheless. If you don't want to read that future review, no one is forcing you to....
LOL well no, obviously a $200 build with a $500 GPU would be impossible. $50 is too high - these mITX Atom combos sell for $30 pretty regularly, but sure let's use $50. Spend between $50-80 on a GPU on sale/rebate (250, 250X, 750), $40 for 8GB RAM, $30 POS case with PSU, $40 for a 500GB HDD or 64GB SSD. Not bad for $210-240. It'll run circles around a comparably-priced AMD system in CPU and GPU benchmarks (Newegg only carries the dual-core E2100 for $50). Would I buy one? Probably not. :D
Intel's branding is a mess... It's impossible for a layperson to understand the difference between Pentium, Celeron, Atom, etc. Especially when the names crossover the same architecture.
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19 Comments
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nathanddrews - Tuesday, May 19, 2015 - link
"Also, because I feel like sticking in a $70 to $570 discrete graphics cards into one of these and see just how far CPU scaling can go."LOL can't wait!
ImSpartacus - Wednesday, May 20, 2015 - link
I know, right?I'm honestly looking forward to that as well.
frenchy_2001 - Wednesday, May 20, 2015 - link
Biggest bottleneck will probably be the 1x PCIe Gen2 interface.Interface scaling is little till 4x Gen3, but below that, performances take a huge hit.
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/HD_5870_PCI...
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Intel/Ivy_Bridg...
HigherState - Tuesday, May 19, 2015 - link
As far as I can tell, the CPUs only support 4 PCI Express 2.0 lanes. You may have issues trying to get NVIDIA cards to work. Im very interested in using a board like these for HTPC uses, however im thinking I may just get a Shield (Android TV) when it comes out.tspacie - Tuesday, May 19, 2015 - link
NV will work just fine. They used to sell a Quadro NVS x1 and actively optimized for the first generation of Atom CPUs that were also single lane.LukaP - Wednesday, May 20, 2015 - link
There will be no problem. The only problem NV has considering PCIe lanes is their artificial SLI limit to x8 at leastKakti - Tuesday, May 19, 2015 - link
Nice I'm interested in building a super low power htpc/seedbox with one of these braswells.Is the 6x USB 3.0 and 6x USB 2.0 stat correct? Seems high, but if so that's awesome for such a low power cpu/chipset
DanNeely - Wednesday, May 20, 2015 - link
native support is apparently only 4x 3.0, 1x2.0 ports; asrock is apparently using either controller chips or on board hubs. Probably the latter due to a PCIe lane shortage.jimmy$mitty - Wednesday, May 27, 2015 - link
It is a typo on the USB 3.0. ITi only supports 4 USB 3.0, plus there is only one additional header on the top of the board. Per Intels site the chip supports up to 5 USB ports, it doesn't specify how many USB 3.0 or USB 2.0.zodiacfml - Tuesday, May 19, 2015 - link
Can't wait. Let's see how this compares to Core M.dealcorn - Wednesday, May 20, 2015 - link
"Also, because I feel like sticking in a $70 to $570 discrete graphics cards into one of these and see just how far CPU scaling can go."Several forum posts suggest folks want to know the limits of gaming on Braswell integrated graphics. What games can or can not be played at acceptable frame rates is of real concern to real consumers. I speculate less than 2% of Baytrail -D and -M motherboards have discrete graphics cards and the percent will drop lower with Braswell. Baytrail -D and -M devastated AMD's low end APU's because so few care about penultimate graphics is a predominately low end media consumption device. What is your motive in chasing the less than 2% use case? Is Braswell low end gaming now competitive with comparably priced AMD offerings? That is a real question that is of interest to a niche in the market. Discrete graphics on a low end integrated graphics motherboard is just sour grapes. It is a misuse of your talents to waste time verifying what is already known. Almost no knowledgeable person will purchase these boards to add discrete graphics because it is a dumb idea.
nathanddrews - Wednesday, May 20, 2015 - link
Is it dumb? We don't know that for sure yet because it hasn't been tested. I'm actually very curious to see what Braswell + dGPU can do for a couple reasons. One is that like Bay Trail, Braswell+mobo will be very, very cheap ($35-50). Two is that with Windows 10/DX12, CPU bottlenecks will be less impactful than under DX11. I think you could possibly build a viable gaming machine for under $200 (sans OS).dealcorn - Wednesday, May 20, 2015 - link
I foresee possible difficulty hitting a $200 price point using a $570 discrete graphics card as originally proposed. Let me understand the reasonable question you ask. Today, the cheapest Baytrail motherboard offered on Newegg is a $50 J1800 motherboard. Braswell vs Baytrail shows significant progress in efficiency and graphics, but the CPU appears to be little more than a push. Given competitive conditions I see little reason Intel would make Braswell available cheaper than Baytrail so lets assume a cheap Braswell dual core motherboard is $50 and we add in a $50 graphics card. The question would be does this $100 combination out game a $100 embedded AMD APU board? That real question goes to the heart of a seriously narrow niche. AMD APU's targeted this niche and had whatever strengths or weaknesses they had and AMD basically lost the low end market. Braswell narrows the graphics gap but with discrete graphics you trash that benefit.. AMD should outgame Braswell as much as it outgamed Baytrail. Unfortunately for AMD, there is no broad public demand for the best quality $200 desktop gaming platform. That is why they already lost the low end market. Again, reading forum posts, I think most who prioritize gaming appreciate the incremental improvements from a higher budget are big and they are willing to pay more for a clearly superior experience. I expect millions of hours will be spent gaming affordably on Braswell, but it will not be a high end experience, just fun.To recap, high end desktop gaming leadership delivers market share. Low end desktop gaming leadership is noise. On an oblique note, low end Android tablet gaming leadership that does not burn your hands may also deliver market share. Maybe the market is not nice, but it is what it is.
Kakti - Wednesday, May 20, 2015 - link
At least for me, I'm interested in the result simply to see how these chips perform when not GPU bound. By putting in a top of the line discrete card, we can see just how far the Braswell chips can be pushed.It's certainly not a likely build for anyone, but I think the results will be interesting nonetheless. If you don't want to read that future review, no one is forcing you to....
nathanddrews - Wednesday, May 20, 2015 - link
LOL well no, obviously a $200 build with a $500 GPU would be impossible. $50 is too high - these mITX Atom combos sell for $30 pretty regularly, but sure let's use $50. Spend between $50-80 on a GPU on sale/rebate (250, 250X, 750), $40 for 8GB RAM, $30 POS case with PSU, $40 for a 500GB HDD or 64GB SSD. Not bad for $210-240. It'll run circles around a comparably-priced AMD system in CPU and GPU benchmarks (Newegg only carries the dual-core E2100 for $50). Would I buy one? Probably not. :DSunLord - Thursday, May 21, 2015 - link
Why bother putting a x16 slot on the board when a open ended 1x slot would of been far better and it would look less like decepetive marketing...DanNeely - Friday, May 22, 2015 - link
an x16 slot does a much better job of physically securing a longer card.yannigr2 - Friday, May 22, 2015 - link
8 motherboards? There are 9 in the table with the specs.grooves21 - Sunday, May 24, 2015 - link
Intel's branding is a mess... It's impossible for a layperson to understand the difference between Pentium, Celeron, Atom, etc. Especially when the names crossover the same architecture.